Today, I am sharing the juice from a recent podcast guesting spot that I did with Michelle J. Raymond of the Good for Business podcast where we talked about, well, what else - podcasts guesting and what business people need to know about it!
...and so much more!
💥 Want to use podcast guesting, TV appearances, PR, stage speaking, press releases and more EARNED MEDIA to take your business and positioning to a whole other level??
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To get you started -
𝐆𝐞𝐭 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐫𝐞𝐞 5-step guide to Strategic Podcast Guest Appearances
Catch Michelle J Raymond, the LinkedIn Business Page Genius at: goodtradingco.com.au
and her LinkedIn business page: GOOD TRADING CO - B2B LinkedIn Strategy & Training: Overview | LinkedIn
💥 If you've got any questions or comments, well, you can drop us a voice message via this SpeakPipe link for leaving a voice mail and we'll answer it for you. Who knows - it might end up as a topic of a future episode!
What if I showed you a process to consistently get high value content that showcases you and your business? Get it created for you with almost no work on your part? And then have it featured on your behalf on media platforms, where people actually come expressly to find content and solutions, just like yours. And you get all that for free? That's what strategic podcast guesting will do for you. And that's what the Podcast Guesting for Business Growth podcast is all about. I'm your host September Smith. In this episode, I am sharing the juice from a recent podcast guesting spot that I did with Michelle J. Raymond of the Good for Business podcast where we talked about, well, what else - podcasts guesting and what business people need to know about it. Welcome to the good for business Show. I'm your host, Michelle J. Raymond and I am joined this week by one of my favorite people on LinkedIn. September Smith, it is so good to catch up with you. It is great to be here with you are so looking forward to this. I know and this is one of those global collaborations. One of the beauties of working on LinkedIn is that I'm sitting here in Sydney, and you're on the opposite side of the world in Mexico. So we are definitely you know, gonna bring this together. And I think that's one of the beauties of LinkedIn is being able to do collaborations like this, and your favorite style podcast guesting I'm a huge fan of and I can't wait to actually share your knowledge. But for anyone that hasn't come across you they should reach out and connect. But tell us a little about a little bit about who you are, what you do and who you help. I'm September Smith, I am a podcaster I have two podcasts one is the she's all that video podcast. And that is what got me into doing podcast guesting strategy and coaching mentoring with entrepreneurs because I realized when I would have these amazing women on my show, and you're one of them, you needed no help. But there were so many pieces missing, and they didn't know what they were really should be doing with it or how to be using it to really make it leverage it for their business. And I thought, okay, I know what you should be doing. And I'm giving this away, you know, like 10 1215 hours with people trying to get them set up. This is a service I have to get. So I started working doing that. So I'm podcast or podcast guesting strategist. And I'm also pretty soon in two months, the host of the breakthrough with Media Summit, which is happening in the middle of June 14 to the 16th. Where we're bringing it all together, it's podcasts guesting, TV appearances, radio, magazines, speaking from the stage, virtual speaking, PR, press releases, the whole schmeer. Got it? Oh, got it. Oh, God, we gotta get it all in one place. Because you know, you can't go here for this and hear for that. Why not bring it all together? So 20 experts in three days? Wow. And I have no doubt that that's going to be amazing. So I am going to ask you to share the link for that event in the comments after we finish so that if anyone's interested. You know, for me personally, having worked with you in the past, and being a guest on your podcast, I know how much knowledge you have. And I know that others will really enjoy learning because there's so many things to learn when you're an entrepreneur, and there's so many moving parts. And there's so many different things that I've got to be across. Because, as you said just before when we're talking, it's all about earned media isn't it's where we don't have to necessarily fork out for everything. And it's other people talking about you that that is one of the things that a lot of people kind of have a misconception about like I've had people say to me, How many times do I have to be a guest before I can be a host? These are two different animals, you could start hosting right out of the gate if you wanted to. But hosting is you talking into a camera or microphone and then having to market it. And it's your unsolicited opinion. Being a guest is you're the invited honored VIP that's being brought on as the thought leader that should be listened to, and then that person is helping you co promote that. These are two different things. Both are good, but one of them takes a whole lot less time. That's so true. So tell me in your words, what is podcast guesting for people that may not have heard those terms before. Podcast guesting is when you are the guest on someone's podcast, which sounds ridiculously simple, but podcasters there are in excess of 2.5 million podcasts right now, some people say like maybe half a million of those are defunct, but whatever, that still leaves us 2 million. And over half of them are interview podcasts. That means we have about a million people out there every week going, Oh my God, who do I get on my show? They need to find guests that you could be that guest because that positions you as that thought leader, you're you've been invited. The host is saying listen to this person. She's All That You Should Be Listening to her. And it's free. For now. Some I mean, they're starting to monetize some of the big shows and I'm kind of afraid where this is gonna go but get out there, get on someone's show, be their expert guest, make sure you know what you're doing. So your wonderful guest, and then co promote that with them. And that's earned media for you. And I think it's the whole, it's the equivalent to getting someone to write a recommendation for you on your LinkedIn profile. Yeah, I see that when someone invites me to come and talk, say, for instance, my niche is all about company pages. When somebody invites me to talk about that, it's almost instant credibility by being the guest. It's almost like there's the seal of approval to their people that I've built a community of followers for the podcast. And it's like an automatic win. And I think that's what people miss is that that's the opportunity to leverage their community that they've already built trust. And then you're straight up on that pedestal as Oh, you're the expert, you've got that third party endorsement from the host, who, as you said, has the trust of their audience. There's, as I say, quite often, there are three things that when a person sees a new beaker, a new show, there are three things they think they psychologically they've studied, and they know, this is the sequence of questions we go through. What is this? Number two is? Why do I care? Doesn't matter to me? And number three, is, does this person even have the authority to be talking about this? If the host is saying, and now my respected guests, Michelle J. Raymond is going to tell us about LinkedIn business pages, you're not going to go really, you're gonna go, okay. So you've eliminated that one filter already. And because they're used to that host, bringing them good information and entertaining them or edifying them with information. The first and second question are very much dampened down. You can ask for more. Yeah, it's just and for me, personally, it's just been a great way. So that after the events actually finished and the podcast goes out, I actually get inquiries that, you know, pop up months later, I don't think it's necessarily just at that one point in time when the podcast is released. Is there like a shelf life on podcasting? Like, that episodes like forever, right? It is, it is. And I might have mentioned this a few times before in the past as compared to social media. A couple of years ago, they did a study, and it was like, what is the lifespan, the longevity on average of a piece of content, and they looked at the shortest being Twitter at 18 minutes. So hopefully, you spent less than 18 minutes making it because that's how long it's gonna last out there before it evaporates. Facebook with something like 21 hours, never to be seen, again. YouTube was 21 days, podcasts for three to five years. That stuff if people putting the right keywords in this properly indexed by and most hosts will properly index and your stuff is going to be found for years. That your episode on my podcast, your episode still gets hits, because it's a very important topic. And it doesn't matter if they put in LinkedIn company pages. You're coming up. Yeah. And can I say when I. So I've got a friend who might be called Michelle J. Raymond, who may Google her own name from time to time, and just to see what pops up just to see what's working, what's not. But when I Google, my name, your podcast comes up my episode with you comes up. So from an SEO perspective, I am a small business owner, I don't have you know, to $3,000 a month to be investing in that in my you know, at this point in time. And it's just another one of those things that one day, I'll have to deep dive into it. But not today. It's not right for my business at where I stand. But I know when I googled my name, your podcast comes up like so. With that. Absolutely. That's not by accident. Absolutely. And so this is one of the things that I found is that Yep, credibility, tick, SEO benefits that I didn't even consider as a bonus. And they're there forever as well. It just sits there. So all of these things add up just to build my credibility. So if we move on to that, like, you know, how does podcasts guessing help a company grow their brand, or the obviously it's the employees going on the podcast, but how can that work for a business? Well, when you are doing any of your marketing, you're building your brand, you basically want people to pay attention, listen, hear you. There is no other form of media short of a Hollywood movie. And none of us have the bankroll for that. There is no other form of media that has the length of engagement that podcast listeners give their that content. We know that maxing out somewhere in YouTube, you're lucky if they hang in there for five to seven minutes. On average podcast listeners. Listen to 80% of an episode and the average episode is somewhere around 40 minutes. So for in excess of a half an hour. You have the opportunity to be in someone's head Feel free, free. So if you know what you're doing, and you make sure you you know what you want to say, you have to be really strategic about it, it's got to be basically your brand story. They'll be out there talking about your grandmother or kittens, unless your business is about kittens. So make sure you know what you're saying, make sure you're on the right show. So it's the right audience so that when they do start listening, you totally sync with what they're looking for. And then you have the opportunity to be in their head. It is such an intimate feeling. To go back to the summit that I'm holding, almost every woman and man that I have as a expert, is someone that I have listened to on podcast either before I decided to reach out to them or after, and I feel like I know them, people will feel like they know you when they've been listening to you for that much time. And if they listened once, and it was really good, they're gonna go find you elsewhere. Absolutely. And I find that, you know, when we release business goals, so obviously book on company pages, I got invited to be a guest on a lot of podcasts, which then flushed out a whole new audience, for me, came around and did the loop. And then came around and said, not I heard about business goals. They said, I listened to you on a on such and such as podcast. So on average, let's just say that most people on LinkedIn, say they've got 2000 followers, you know, some of them have got way north of that could be up to 20,000 or more. And then all of a sudden, I have access to their audience, because they're promoting it on their channels. And normally across multi channels, you know, they could be on Twitter, or Instagram, or all kinds of different places, no idea where they're going to be putting your stuff out to, like, to potentially millions of new people. Yeah. And when people send me a message on LinkedIn, they say, I heard you on this podcast. I feel a little bit famous. I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna confess, right? I can't lie. I there's like a little kick that goes, Oh, wow. Like because, you know, being on a podcast, you know, to my community, you know, friends and family. They're like, Whoa, you're on a podcast, like, it's really seen as that elevated levels of perceived value. And in many cases, I mean, it's actual value, but there is the perception, the mental perception, just like when we see someone, they were on TV. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're Einstein. It just means that they had an opportunity to to be on TV, but it's received in a whole different way as then, I saw a post on Facebook that you did. No, two different things. Yeah, it's just such a level of credibility. Like it's expertise like Goldstar, straight there. So before we jump on to my next question, I want to jump onto the leaners question, because I think it's really important for people to understand, and we'll cover off a little bit of this later, but you know, your tips for first time podcast guests, if people are listening to this and going, I can see how podcasting fits within my strategy. What do they do to prepare how what's your tips? would be if you've got that strategy, then we're going to extend out of that and think, what are my goals for this thing? What do I want to achieve with this? And you really do have to think about it. Do I want to get more followers on LinkedIn? Or do I want to get more podcast guesting? Or do I want to go out with more media? Or am I looking to network with the hosts and their circle? What are my goals? Where do I want to be in six months? Where do I want to be in a year? And that should kind of help you go? Okay, well, then those are the type of shows and those are the type of hosts that I want to be with. Make sure you find a show that really works for what you want to say in the audience that you're trying to attract. Make sure that they're a nice host as well, because sometimes just you get on a show you've had that experience. Oh, yes, I've been very fortunate not to have had that experience. But sometimes, some hosts are just on there, you're just Potter, they're just there to either belittle you or push you down to lift themselves up. So make sure it's a show that is going to position you the way you want to be positioned. And as we were talking before we went on. It's it's a conversation. And it's not, don't just sit there waiting for the host to ask you questions, engage in it, like it's a conversation, because that's what people want to hear. They already liked the host. And look, there's you're talking with the host in order to fund so yeah, it's great to listen to, you can piggyback. It makes sure that you know what your goals are. So that at the end, basically, if it's for business, you got to have a call to action in there. Otherwise, it's just some nice person that was talking on a podcast. Make sure you're taking the conversation in a direction that at the end of it, kind of the indisputable conclusion to this has to be well, what is it you're serving me or what can you do or how what are you offering how, how can I be helped by you? Is that Yeah, and I think that you know what you meant? One there that you know, and we'll move on to this one is like tips to select the right podcast to appear on. Now, September you just mentioned one of the let's just say I had two experiences in podcast guesting last year. So no, no, no one good one one, completely the opposite. So on one hand when I went onto your podcast, and I'm not just saying this, because you're here, because I've said it to you, when you go and check your profile, there's recommendations, I wrote them. When I went on to yours, I felt like you just set me up to smash it out of the park, like everything was there to set me up as the expert, to bring out my knowledge to really make sure that that audience walked away with nothing but like the best impression of me and my knowledge, and I literally just had to hit the home run out of the park. And so that was that experience. I also had another experience is someone else, which just was completely the opposite. And I as you use your words got turned into cannon fodder. Now, I am lucky that I can argue for myself and could stand up for myself. But that is not what you do that day. No, that particular episode left me with, you know, almost like anxious for two weeks wondering what I'd done to my career and my business going forward. Because I didn't know how that was going to, you know, turn out now, as it turns out, because I handled myself well, then it was a positive thing. In the long run, it was not a positive experience for me. So how do people that have never been a guest? How do you know which ones right and which ones not? Well, you can get kind of the big strokes, make your list of 10 to 20. Based on what we talked about before, you know your strategy, get strategic about, okay, I need the same audience. I'm looking for somebody that has my audience. But we have complementary talking points and or things that our businesses do. Once you've narrowed that down. Some people say just go for the numbers go for the for the downloads, that's not necessarily true, because you can be using it for your your social proof as well. And like you say, you can have a fantastic interview that you want to keep using clips from and you want to keep promoting for years to come from a smaller show. So it's you have to decide do I want to and both are good. One is really going to profile me well, one that's going to get me lots of downloads, hopefully. But then listen, go in and listen, and don't just listen to one, see if you can find somebody that's similar to you and see how did that conversation go? Of course not identical to you, because then you probably won't get chosen to be on the show. But somebody that you know, have a similar demographic business background, and listen, is that host collegial? Are they respectful? Are they cool collaborative, like you say like, this is a conversation where we want to talk about how amazing you are, or is that host kind of egotistical. And it's really all about them. And, you know, I after having done so many podcasts and I was listening, but also done on myself, kind of a sweet spot is about for speaking the ratio is three to one for Speaker versus host. That is a nice balance. And when the host starts talking a bit more than that, and or talking over or whatever, that's when I no longer your your, your audience starts to feel like I didn't like that person that that host really, you know, they hardly even let them talk. So just listen to the episodes and does it sound like somebody that it would be nice to be talking to a will be comfortable and it will be a great listen for the audience? Because that's what your goal is. Absolutely. And I have to confess that I did not do that. So I do not listen to podcasts. I need to tell you that and the reason is, I don't learn by listening and they put me to sleep, right? No. So really, I love reading transcription. So I'm that weird person that prefers to read a transcription of the podcast. When I listen, I just zone out. I was like that at school. It's not just you know to do with podcasts I learned by reading. And so as much as you know, I try and get involved. What I didn't do is do my homework. Do my research, set myself up for success because here's what happened. Lena when I started on podcasts guesting anyone that asked me I was flattered my ego was just high fiving myself, because I thought it was the bee's knees opportunity. And it absolutely is. I wholeheartedly agree with what you know September is sharing with us today. But it's not on the wrong one. And so and there's some others that the quality, which September I love you to talk about it because the quality of the podcast was down and then we went way like the sound downs just sound and polished. And so what happens is even though I was able to share expert knowledge, the production can also So take away from that. And as we said, the beauty of podcasting, it's there for what did you say, if you unify three to five, it's out there, and people will find it. It's not going anywhere. So make sure you get on good podcasts. Good, bad and ugly is out there for that long. So you know, this is where selecting upfront and practicing with people and not just reaching out saying, hey, I want to be on your podcast, you know, if you want to be on somebody's podcast, or LinkedIn lives, or another version of this, you know, show people what they get support their content in the lead up, get to know their personality, like that's the beauty of social media properly as well. If you're going to pitch do not say, I'll be on your podcast, that's akin to going on a dating site, and I'll be your husband. In a way, I don't even know you. So what how does a good pitch go? Tell me what you're looking for a good pitch. Basically, lay it out, you gotta let them know. Because if they read, they read the first few sentences is like, Who is this person, let them know that you know them, and that you're interested, and that you know, their podcast. And you might even mention that you've listened to an episode or read the transcript. Most people, most people listen. And then you can say, be really good. If you also mentioned a episode that kind of was a nice dovetail for. And I speak to a similar thing, but unique. And I am wondering if you'd be interested in considering having a chat about this, because I think we could really do a great job collaborating. And when I'm talking while I'm on the topic of collaboration, I always make an effort to co not to co create the episode with my host, and I would be more than happy to help you push any episode that we created. So though, that kind of thing is like, Oh, they're gonna be flattered, and they're gonna be interested. Look, and it is a collaboration. It is not you're the host you do all the work, I just show up like a god and talk. I've found that the episodes for me, I don't want it to just fall flat after I've given up my time to actually sit here and have the conversation. Same with yourself on both sides, you know, and so, for me, my advice is, give and give and give, because I don't just do podcasts guesting to show up on that for the SEO. I do it because I want that podcast hosts to almost be my ambassador in the future. So if someone mentions company pages, after I've been on their show, and they're talking to someone else, I want them to say, Oh, the only person you need is Michelle, here's my episode that I did with her. Go and talk to her. Here's where you can find, you know, and relationships. You are connecting networks just by going on their podcasts and being a great guest. And being collaborative. And staying in touch. Feels like a one night stand sometimes people like yeah, okay, bye. Call me. God, it's so true. It's like wham, bam, thank you, man. This is This is business. Because if you're in business, and you're doing podcasts guesting for your business, you're probably talking to other business people. Why would you walk away from the opportunity to become part of their wider business network? And maybe, like, I know myself, I've received opportunities. And I have given opportunities to people who are great guests on my show, or if I guest on their show, you never know a month or two from now they're gonna be like, Oh, I'm having a whatever event, could you speak at it? Or oh, I'm doing this or Oh, can I send this client to you? Don't walk away from those networking opportunities. No. And it's really solid. Like, it's not just a flimsy, it can be like really solid like you and I have become really close friends. I know that if I've got someone that wants to talk about podcasting, or PR or media in general, you're my go to referral partner, there is nobody else because my experience of you means that I was left walking away going, if I refer someone to September to be a guest on her podcast, or do training or you know, attend the summit, then I know they're in good hands because I was in good hands, you know, and I got to walk away feeling 10 foot tall and bulletproof. And I want other people in my network to do it. And this is where that partnership comes in. It's not a I'm a guest and then I just turn up and disappear. The more that you support the other person vice versa, leverage off each other's networks. It's the one plus one equals three. You know, it's the synergies between the two where you both work together. And quite often what you'll find is you may end up invited as a guest, you know, in the future from someone else, you know, and so that people can tell if you help promote. Yeah, we're all watching and so I get the feeling sometimes people feel like well, they look at celebrities and they don't see the celebrities re promoting their earned media. So they think well it's not cool I was on the show I'll just walk away and wait for you know, like the the paparazzi to show up. Even like a swan underwater, they might be gliding on the surface. But that celebrity no matter how big they are, whether it's them or their team are churning and paddling like crazy on the surface, pushing that stuff out and repurposing and leveraging the hell out of it, and you've got to do that, too, you don't have a PR team, probably, even if you do, somebody's got to be pushing that stuff out there. Otherwise, you are totally wasting this amazing content that you've helped co create. I know and this is what I don't understand is I say to people, okay, you spend, we're gonna spend half an hour on this, it's also taken time to promote create, put it out there. So it's probably I reckon, all up at least three hours that I put into a half hour session, why would I just shelve it and put it in a drawer and leave it up to an algorithm I'm never gonna do that. We have also it's like gold, it's marketing gold. You know, like, there's, there's you looking at your phone going, I'm amazing, you should buy my stuff, versus you're on a show or somebody is going, they are amazing. Just listen to them, you should buy their stuff, which one is more psychologically convincing? You are not going to be getting that out to the world, they're going to see what people say about me. Of course, you gotta be more subtle than that. You're you're leaving money. I hate that phrase money on the table. But you're it's so valuable. And you're just squandering it. It really is. So what are the creative ways that we can use these things for people that might be starting to get a portfolio together of podcasts guesting, what else can you do with it? Well, just right off the bat, when that thing drops, before you even start putting it, make sure you get it on your website and have it on your social media, the social proof, and you can take clips of it. But make sure you co promote it that week, it drops. That is when you're really helping the host with that. And again, you do that network building, because especially if it's on LinkedIn, they post your writing comments, conversational comments, and then people in their network and in your network are going, oh, there's a conversation here. And they're seeing you and then they can listen to your podcast. That is a really great promotional time for you not just for the podcast, but also within whatever network that host has going on where make sure it's on your website. What I like to do is have a link to it, so that they see the thumbnail, they can go to it. But also take a snippet out of it and make an audiogram. Right, go through and find I think we actually did that for your episode on my podcast, one of the things you said that really struck me is like, Oh, wow, that's profound. There were so many things, but the ones that I really particularly liked, and we make an audiogram out of it, so people can can just get a taste of it. Because it's a bit much to say to somebody, Hey, I want to listen to 30 minutes of me talking. So give them a bit of an intro this Oh, that sounds good. You can be creating video clips audiograms. You can be using it for your speaker reel, especially, you know, during the time of COVID. And it was hard for us to get out and be doing live speaking, use the video footage from that and put that in your speaker's reel. You can be using it if you're if you're asking somebody if you can be in their event, you can take a clip of it. So they if you've got nothing else they can see like, oh, okay, now I get their vibe. I know who they are. Yeah. And I personally, I've set up recently a showcase page on LinkedIn for my podcast. So the good for business show has a showcase page. And every guest that comes on I've been creating an audiogram, which is all branded, which sits on that page. So that I can always refer people easily like so if I have a conversation with someone, or I see someone commenting about a podcast guesting I go, Oh, it's easy to find, I just bring them over to my computer page. Because obviously, that's one of my goals is to get as many people across to see that. And then all the links are there so that they can then either watch it live, or they can watch it on YouTube. Or they can go and actually listen to the podcast. So you know, I'm always looking for ways how do you make your content just stretch further go through. The whole thing you did was making a Spotify playlist? Yeah, that's my trophy and having the greatest hits of the shoulder room. And I love that. That's brilliant idea, one link, and then they have your whole portfolio. Yeah, the other way that I use it is and the reason that I did that, so I talk on company pages, company pages, company pages, that's what everybody knows me for. Quite often I'll get inquiries from people who want to know about company pages, they're not yet ready to invest in training or, you know, they've bought the book, but they want to know more or keep up to date. I refer them to my Spotify playlist, the trophy cabinet, as I call it, all the episodes that I've been on. And I say to them, Look, I you know, here's something that's for free, you can go and listen here I discuss lots of stuff. And it's a great way just to keep them engaged to me. They still get to learn I get to help more people but I can't help everybody one on one. So there's that intimate connection as well. Again, your your, you know, whispering sweet nothings in their ear is not a saying for nothing. It's a very intimate thing to be listening to somebody in your You're here and they now feel they know you and you don't know like trust. I think it's really funny. So correct me if I'm wrong, I have like a burning question of my own. I seem to be rather a podcast listener or you're not. But the ones that listen to it, they're listening to these things all day, every day. Is that like, do you have some stats? Or you know, your side of things? That's my perception. What is the actual reality? There was two things there, there was an article, I think last week came out in The Guardian saying that podcast listeners, they did research, and I think it was out of Australia. And they found that podcast listeners were overall happier people. There were also people who really enjoyed mental challenges, and they wanted to be stimulated. And they it was just this list I had actually posted into like, girls, go find yourself a podcast listener, it was like the perfect person. But when it comes to this to the stats, that HubSpot, they do their quarterly reports on media. And the one that came out in the fall was basically a billion people worldwide are listening to this, on average and every day, which means some people are listening a whole lot more, I'm somewhere in the middle. And again, it's like from the average is about 80%. So that means a lot of them are listening to 100%. They are hanging with you for 80%. And when the average is 40 minutes ish, per episode, that's like an excess of half an hour. So and they're also finding that it's one of the fastest growing ways that people go to get information to make purchases. And they're the buyer ship. I've seen differing stats, anywhere from 68 to 80% of people say that after listening to a podcast, they make a purchase, not meaning they're gonna buy your stuff after every podcast, listen, but they know that like this is such convincing, persuasive content that they've been listening to. It's like, Yep, I'm buying. Wow, that's amazing, because I find and shout out to my friend, Wendy Robertson, who is a huge podcast listener. And she's been opening my eyes to how she uses them as part of her learning. And she's super loyal to the podcast that she enjoys. You know, it's episode after episode after episode. So once you've got that kind of first interest, you can keep them for such a long time and grab attention. So that's, you know, some of the things that I noticed. So for those people that may have joined in late, I want them to hear about the summit one more time, because we've come to the end of the show. But I'd love for you to just share one more time about the summit and what people can get out of it. Putting on a three day Virtual Media Summit, breakthrough with Media Summit, from June 14th, to the 16th. It's going to be free. And is for people who want to figure out the ways to be tapping are in media, such as podcasting, making TV appearances. How do you go about doing that? How do you make that happen? Radio magazines, speaking from the stage, virtual speaking, PR press releases publicity, all those things. I've got 20 experts, industry experts, in the three days I met so that by the end of it, you're gonna go like, I get it. I know what I need to do. I need what I know what's right for me. And I now know, they're really amazing people that I want to work with. So it's free, check it out. And you're going to be getting so much more earned media, just from being in there, and following the steps that everybody's giving you. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to say thank you for sharing so much and so generously today. For anyone that hasn't connected with September, then we are going to make sure that you do that after this show because she's the absolute expert that I have in my network that I can you know, give to people as a as a gift because you really are a gift to me, and you've taught me so much. So I appreciate you. And on that note, we're going to finish out but thanks for your time. Well, thanks so much for having me, Michelle, as always, it has been a pleasure hanging out with you and just talking podcasting. No worries. Cheers, everyone. Thanks for being here. I hope you got some insight and inspiration on how you could be taking advantage of the incredible opportunity of podcasts guest appearances open to all of us right now. It's brand building PR app leveled exposure positioning, networking and lead generation and it's all for free. If this is something that you would like to have working for your business in 2020 to make sure you subscribe and follow now and join us for our monthly podcast guesting perhaps go workshops that will open your eyes to the potential waiting for you and your business with his media opportunity and lay the foundation for a media campaign that will put you on the map. You can also download our free guide to strategic podcasts guesting that link is in the notes, or drop us a voice message with your comments or questions via the SpeakPipe link in the notes. Let's make podcasts guesting work for you